Hello Jason,

Thanks to your suggestions and cues and sheer patience and practice with the regressions, I’m now at a point where I can do 5 sets of 4-5 reps of strict chin ups. I think my repetition max lies around 7 reps and I would like to take it to 10 or beyond before moving to the MA pulls and then strict pulls because I feel there’s still more that could be gained from this movement. Considering that basic linear improvement of one extra rep per session is seeming to stall at times, as retraction gives up in the latter sets, I devised a routine (2x week) that I’d run for a phase and would really appreciate your feedback on it.

DAY 1:

Main:

Strict chin ups accumulated reps (max reps x6): 42 reps week 1, 50r w2, 55r w3 and so on until 65 reps in week 6 and then a max rep test in the beginning of the phase after. The idea is slowly ramping up volume without focusing on sets so much.

Accessory: elevated rows: 2 sets of 6-8 reps increasing elevation slowly.

DAY 2:

Main:

Strict chin up with top iso hold: starting with 5 sets of 2 reps with a 5s hold each and progressing to a 5x5 over a phase.

Accessory: elevated rows again.

I’m always running arch hang development in the back as priority.

What do you think? My main goal here is to solidify the retraction and capacity for strict pulling since I feel I got some but it’s not solid yet. For example, I noticed I can already do multiple MA pronated pulls but there’s no way I can hold the CTB for those, only a quick touch…

M,

Great to hear the reps are building in your CTB chinup project! Sounds like fantastic progress so far.

I would firstly try the plan you propose for a phase a reassess from there, as you've constructed it from embodied prior knowledge of what's been working. The only thing I would perhaps say is increase the ring-rows to 8-10x, working toward the milestone of also locking in the 10x TTC in a deficit position. This will give a nicely balanced stimulus to the lower reps 4-5 you're working for work sets with your vertical pulling at the moment.

Also consider alternating the 'strict chinup iso.' with the 'CTB extend & flex' context, as this also includes valuable patterning and carries milestones in and of itself too. It will all contribute to the bigger picture of working toward the 10x solid 'strict' CTB chins, which is a fantastic foundational milestone to achieve.

Lastly - if all is feeling well with the volume, you could even add in a 'grease-the-groove' protocol of just 1 set of 5 chins at any time of the day, 3-5 x per week. This can be fantastic for consolidating previous gains. But, again, only if everything is feeling great.

Now if after the 6 weeks phase all has developed and still room to grow, continue it. If it stagnates again, there's a couple things you can try adding a third day, but UNDULATING heavy/medium/light days in the chinup, determined by the protocol you use. E.g.:

Heavy - 10-15' AMRAP, with an increasing objective
Medium - 5x 5, with the rest you need to achieve it.
Light - 2-3 sets of chinup, submaximal, and 2-3 sets of row.

The above is just an example, and only if you need it. You might not. It can be adjusted as fits your needs, as long as it follows the sequence.

All the bets for the ongoing work! Let's keep refining the rocket fuel which will fire you to the moon

J

Thank you for the gameplan and suggestions. I will re-assess after this current phase!

As for the TTC rows in the 8-10 rep range, do you see it necessary to hold the TTC isometrically as well? I spent a couple of phases with a strict 2s iso hold with the ring row with 5-6 reps per set until horizontal, but now, if I’m to add a deficit and also add more reps I see that the isometric TTC doesn’t hold. I can definitely touch my chest every rep with “strict” form, but then I’d go straight into the eccentric. What do you think? This is mainly a pull-up accessory for me..

What is your opinion on doing Chin ups/Pull ups with full retraction but just chin above bar (no ctb) in higher rep ranges for hyperthrophy and auxiliary purposes?

I’m developing nicely with the strict form, but given that I almost exhausted my rows options and that, in theory, more muscle translates to more strength I thought that a scaled down strict version could pair up as a nice accessory in higher rep range 8-10r, after the main strict sets in the 5r range.

What do you think? Or would simply a more mechanically advantageous strict form, like the strict chin up MA be more suitable for this?

Hi Massi,

I understand your proposal here, but I would stick with the chest-to-bar standard for vertical pulling if that remains the main objective. Yes, chin-over-bar with higher reps will stimulate hypertrophy, but consider that more muscle (or, too "little" muscle) is NOT the limiting factor here. It's the NERUO-muscular aspect of being able to recruit them efficiently, and also combining this with a specific form (i.e. the CTB end-range).

So, what really counts here is spending more TIME in that (CTB) position. Hence the row is a valuable tool, in all its permutations. So, I would recommend you exhaust the standard ring-row and bar variations (both supinate and pronated) until able to perform 10x with 1" CTB/TTC iso, with feet-elevated (deficit). Then, keep up just 1 or 2 sets a couple of times per week for maintenance (any variation of choice).

If this is close to or already available, I would explore considering replacing your chinups with 'False-grip ring pullups' - this provides the increase intensity which you're looking for, but also helps "bridge the gap" (literally) due to the slightly shortened range of pull because of the grip position.

If you are closing in on 10x CTB chinups at or toward 'strict' form (and pumping out the reps with explosive pull and just touching chest is okay here), then I would get onto the pronated, pullup train and start racking up the CTB/TTC volume here (actually better is to start rings, as it allows somewhat of an intermediary grip between neutral & pronated which is more mechanically-advantageous/ergonomic for most).

In the background here start building up your p-bar dip capacity and look toward stability on the rings and those MS, f you haven't already. Keep the pullup & "strict" form more of an intermediary goal on the way to the main one here - clean muscle-ups. One eye on the road, but the other on the bird's-eye view at al times!

Enjoy the journey my man

J

Thank you for the clear pathway explanation. When looking to just accumulate more CTB volume how do you see incorporating both strict and MA variations within a set as a kind of drop set idea?

For example, I can do sets of 5 reps of strict CTB chin-up, but after those reps I lose the retraction standard, then I could definitely switch into MA form to get an extra 3-4 reps with CTB. Would this be feasible to accumulate more volume? As strict variations naturally produce less reppage due to difficulty, or is the juice not worth the squeeze and its better for me to keep things purely strict?

I would keep it 'strict'. Instead, used a density protocol such as AMRAP (as many reps as possible) in a given time-frame, aiming to increase the reps achieved over 1-2 phases. 15-20 mins is a good AMRAP time, and work from the perspective of strategic rest and leaving "gas in the tank" to keep the reps of the last set as clean as the first. So, this might mean just working sets of 3x with rest periods which allow you to keep up that quality output. Then reps of 3-4, then toward sustaining sets of 5x throughout the entire AMRAP.