Hey Jason,

I've been working for some months on pistol squats, approaching them very slowly as I want to build up to the prerequisites for starting to practice the dragon squat later on.

The thing is, I do them deep ass to grass and when coming up from the bottom position I notice my knee slightly caving inwards and in the right leg especially at the end of the training I feel that the joint is fatigued––not pain, but a slight dull sensation.

Now, dorsiflexion has always been my weak point. I really worked my way starting with a box (plus the pulsing protocol) and reducing height until I managed to do them unassisted, but the small knee cave plus the general feeling of not having full control in the movement––expressed, for example, in losing balance at times and having to momentarily put the leg down in between reps, or occasionally failing a rep––tells me that just accumulating volume should not be the goal yet. I think I should focus on refining the movement, also given the slight knee sensation that I would not want to turn into actual pain.

So, I thought of putting the pistols in the back burner by having them as accessory in my lower session for 1-2 sets of singles, focusing really on the eccentric phase and introducing a weighted movement as main exercise to build strength and stability in the knee with less complexity. I was thinking of the split squat.

That would look something like:

LOWER SESSION:

-Joint prehab: Petersen step up 2 sets.
-Main: bb split squats 4-5 sets of 5-6 reps per leg increasing linearly over 1-2 phases.
-Accessory: pistol squats 2 sets of singles accumulated 5 reps per side. Maybe I'd not even increase the reppage for a phase and just work on the quality of movement.

What do you think? Does it make sense to focus on weighted split squats to strengthen the area a little more before doing pistols for real volume again? Or would you recommend instead a normal back squat? Although that works less on the dorsiflexion...

I even thought of just putting pistols as priority, removing them from the main practice, just 1 set per day of 3-5 alternating singles to grease the groove..but maybe that's too much on the joints?

Curious to hear how you'd tackle this.

Thanks in advance!

My friend!

Ah yes - the Pistol. A valuable capacity-milestone in the lower-body complexity practice!

Regarding your experience of valgus (medial deviation of knee), whilst there might be some structural imbalance causing this it's unlikely that it's to the extent that the likes of any isolated lateral-deviation work, for example, would help resolve. So, whilst you're on the right lines in thinking you can help resolve it with another squatting pattern, rather than strength-development think more in terms of optimising PATTERNING.

In the Pistol itself, this simply translates to maintaining the strong intention that it does NOT valgus toward an unstable position - in the toughest region, normally around 90-degrees, focus on keeping the weight EVENLY spread in the foot (i.e. avoid letting it shift toward the insole) and the knee pulled OUT (or, rather, just not tracking *inward*). With your 'ass-to-grass', then, avoid feeling yourself go "passive" in the bottom so that you maintain your structural integrity. Instead, feel yourself PULL into the bottom position and even hold an isometric second *just* above your end-range (you can facilitate this if you aim to keep your structure a little more upright, as opposed to "folding" too much over the squatting leg).

A protocol you can practice to consolidate this optimal patterning is a slow eccentric & bottom-iso - e.g. [4211] or even [6211] for singles. But, again, you want to hold that isometric with STRENGTH, so it won't be just hanging out passively in your "ass to grass". It will be above, likely exactly in that region you normally experience valgus. Spending the time there will help toward better optimising the trajectory map of the pistol.

As for making accessory to back-squat or split-squat, whilst the 'Split squat' would have greater transferability to the pistol due to its unilateral nature & facilitating stability & mobility-development too (both innate in the Pistol), I wouldn't necessarily hold it as the solution to solving the riddle - actually, dorsiflexion is more the real "cheat-code" here, so keep on that diligently, and I would recommend getting it nice & stretched out before your sets of Pistols too. It could be a nice to switch it up in terms of priority both to give a slightly different lower-body stimulus as well as your mind a rest so as not too fall into too hard focus, but, if you're locking in ass-to-grass singles already with the Pistols, I truly believe simply adding the INTENTION to mitigate valgus, as mentioned, and continuing the grind will get you there - your body will re-organise its patterning if you intend it to do so. Of course, respect the feelings of your joints and, if you feel the "intention" is still not there, still valgus, still causing questionable sensations, then take a break from it.

In this break I would instead switch up for the SHRIMP SQUAT (could be in main lower, or in priority - if the Pistol w/intention is feeling okay, yes this could go in priority also for "greasing" - but I would say submaximal volume/intensity for just maximally 3-4x per week). The Shrimp, due to its emphasise on forward-loading over the toes, will more specifically develop knee-stability and, again, if you keep the intention of optimal tracking also help to build that patterning, which is transferable to the Pistol.

Let me know if that makes sense and how the journey develops.

With the powerful of those peaceful pistols!

J

Thanks for the very detailed answer. I’ve tried today to focus on holding that liminal region between ass to grass and below 90 degrees with intention and strength and the knee caving was really to a minimum. I will invest time in this as I think it will take me a few phases to really nail the movement.

In the meantime, to continue building lower strength and squat mobility besides the pistol, which is a lateral project that will evolve into dragons when the time come, what would you recommend? I was looking to add a less complex strength builder to my lower complexity sessions and while the split squat appeal to me due to its dorsiflexion development and even conditioning front split range, it’s also another unilateral movement that doesn’t really develop pure strength, and maybe better to spice things up with a classic barbell squat, or even bodyweight sissy squats? Yet without feeling so drained after that my pistols are compromised…What do you think could fit here?

Great to hear that the sign-posts have been leading you down a productive path my friend! Keep following. It will take time. Unlocking the pistol is so heavily dependent on mobility factors that we must also have the patience - and the protocols in place in the background - to allow that to develop too and then see it "unified" in this fundamental, bodyweight squat context.

R.e. exercises to complement, I would say go 'Sissy squat', unless you really feel like you want to back-squat, but then I would do back squat in a different session due to physical & nervous fatigue. Also, back squat will not only undesirably fatigue you for the pistols after, but it actually also has very little transferability to the latter. In all honesty there is very little transferability between them at all. Being able to do 30x bodyweight pistols each leg doesn't mean you squat even 1.5x your bodyweight for 5-10x. And a double bodyweight back squat won't translate to even just 5x pistols each leg!

The 'Sissy squat' will have greater transferability, and, just as a heads up, it's perfect superset with 'Harop curls' to stimulate your posterior-chain bilaterally too. You can also practice the fundamental 'Single-leg reach' as a posterior-chain, unilateral counterpart to your pistol too, which will help to develop the range there. Or, just slip in sets of 'Floor calf-pulses' between pistols to ensure you've all the range is dorsiflexion you can get whilst practicing pistols.

Just lasty - keep in mind & consider that there is no bodyweight leg exercise which will every stimulate maximal strength development like weighted barbel movements (i.e. squats & hinges). BUT, I would simply make a different project of it, at another time. You will certainly build strong and MUCH more "complex" legs with bodyweight alone, especially with the variety of drills in the VRL (and more to come in May, the 1 year anniversary!) My recommendation - at this time, invest WHOLLY in getting your pistol because to achieve it will require & develop TRUE physical change (i.e. mobility, joint integrity, proprioceptive & structural awareness...) which will be lasting. You can back squat at any time - there is no "pre-condition", other than having an accessible squat (and even this can be worked around). Maybe plug in a 5x 5 set of back squats once a month or max every 3 weeks if you'd like to stay checked in, but keep your eyes on the prize - PISTOL!

I would work all the way to a baseline of 5x ea, then ultimately to a milestone of 10x ea from the ground. Once you have this, it will be with you always, if you're keeping your lower-body complexity work full-range & dynamic. After that, perhaps open up a separate back-squat project looking at a milestone of ca. 1.5x bodyweight for a 5x5!

With you on the endless journey,

J

Following up on this. After some time spent on the eccentrics + iso I noticed that my form is still not ideal—while I can somehow control the knee caving I’m definitely not upright and chest open, leaning forward. This is probably due to dorsiflexion restrictions, which are improving with the pulses although slowly.

My question is if at this point it makes sense to practice the pistol at all yet then? It seems that the strength gains are heavily hindered by the ankle limitations so, perhaps, wouldn’t I be served more by working on unilateral strength builders, for example the shrimp or even a weighted step up with slow eccentric to strengthen that top down range, while continuing the dorsiflexion process?

Then I thought I could resume the pistol journey after 2 phases on the mentioned protocol, which might finally be more rewarding as the ankle flexibility has improved further and the knee stability too. Do you think that it make sense at all to practice pistols at all when the ankles limit the progress?

Curious of what you think.

Max!

I left to reply until after the VRL updates, namely the 'Skill Trees', which are now active. They will help you to better learn "where you are" and to select the appropriate path & projects to keep growing your journey: https://www.movemorevrl.com/lower-body-strength-1

It's a great question to ask, and here's my two cents - forget about optimal form and do the reps. Just ensure the foot of the working legs stays flat on the floor, not shifting weight into the ball. Chest upright & open doesn't really matter as long as you're getting the reps in. If you wait for dorsiflexion to develop, you'll be waiting a very long time.

Having said that, if you want to work toward bridging the gap, you can work the Pistol slightly elevated with focus on more "optimal" form. I say "optimal", because injecting an effort to stay more upright will simply increase the demand for dorsiflexion and, in this way, it's requested in an APPLIED context.

You could alternate this in sessions. 1x "Heavy" session, e.g. 5x Pistol ea. side from floor (straight-set or accu.) for up to 5 sets. Then have a "medium/light" session, working elevated for up to 10x each leg, 3 sets.

If you were unable to do a single pistol from the floor then, yes, I would be more inclined to say shift focus & return. But as you've got the Pistol from the floor, keep investing. It takes time.

Always keep in mind - mobility-range, especially in dense tissue regions such as the calf/Achilles, can take YEARS of consistent work to develop. It's rare that people are thinking in the 3-5 years, or even 10 years range when thinking about significant mobility developments, but this can really be the reality. Unless you want to wait that long to practice the pistol, I would stick the path!

Hope this help on the onward journey

J

Thank you for the reality check! I’ve looked at the lower skill tree and there are some exercises as early as lvl 1, for example the sissy, pu bu reach, and dragon squat that I haven’t practiced so far. And so the sissy touchdown, and sissy into low bridge, which all come before the pistol in this newer progression path.

Others, like the deck squat unilateral I did in the past but for me it has only worked with a small (1.2-2.5kg) counterweight due to the ankle issue.

Given that, as you also say, I have a few reps of pistols from the floor, shall I just focus on it for the requested time or it’s better to go back and complete those regressions first?

Thanks for the help.

As mentioned in the Intro video (more specific supporting resources for each of the areas will come), yes you may well find you're well ahead in one area, compared to another. So, whilst this definitely means you would do well to open some space in practice to develop them, it's never the case that you "shouldn't" move ahead with something just if other areas are missing experience. Especially with the diversity in the LBS skills-trees - it's not as simple as "I have to be able to do this, before I can do this". This is only really true for linear progressions (i.e. clearly you need a Pistol before a 'Dragon-pistol', and a 1x BW back squat before a 1.5 BW back squat).

To be precise - if you have a minimum of 3x, full-range pistols from the floor then you can use this productively for a "heavy" day, accumulating 6x each side in an alternating dropset (3x ea, 2x ea, 1x ea alternating). Practice up to 5 sets. Objective - increase maximal reps on each leg.

For a "medium/light" day you can then work with an elevation which allows 5x each leg, and practice 2-3 sets. Objective - achieve 5x reps with a lower & lower elevation.

Again, no need to feel you must "complete" previous projects before keeping forward on your path, unless they are clearly linear. And, just if they're in lower-level skill trees, doesn't mean they're "regressions". The 'Sissy squat', for example, is not related to the 'Pistol' - they are different skills.

Great answer as usual. Thank you!